Amazing isn't it?

I found this fascinating reading, and wonder how passage of this bill will affect the outcome of the recall.

I suspect it will increase turnout among non-Hispanic voters. However, the election may depend entirely on the grassroots campaign for Bustamante and where the DNC decides to place it's last minute money, with Davis or Bustamante.

My gut feeling is that Davis's numbers with likely voters will go south into the teens after SB60 and the Dems will back Bustamante rather than risk losing the state just before the 2004 elections. The money they invest in voter registration and organizing for Bustamante will serve them again at the polls next year.

Bustamante may have just checkmated Davis.

It's preposterous to believe that by the signing SB60 Davis would think that he could help his campaing, who does the bill benefit? Illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants cannot vote, nor will they be able to vote with the passing of this bill. If they were unable to vote prior to having a license, nor will they be able to vote if they have a license. There are thousands of legal immigrants, those with work permits, those with political protection or asylum, those who are here studying in the U.S. with no voting rights. They have a license and guess what THEY CANNOT VOTE, even if they wanted to. The principle behind coming to the United States nowadays is the same two, three, four centuries ago. TO MAKE A BETTER LIVING. I challenge you to live a month without the priviledges of driving, and that is just driving, it does not extend to being able to identify yourself! Yeah that's what I though! This is a bill of highway and public safety, dont think for a nanosecond is about voting priviledges for undocumented immigrants. Dont think for a second that this undocumented immigrants are a danger to society becuase they are probably on the same street that you will drive this morning to work, the only difference is that if you get in a car accident with them, and you are responsible for such accident, the unlicensed driver will suffer more for your stupidity. Let the undocumented come forward and identify him/herself. I'm not afraid of doing that!

You're living in a dream world my friend, ruled by emotion not common sense. Have you not heard of the Motor Voter Law? When you are issued a CADL you are enrolled to vote automatically and placed on the Jury rolls.

A sample ballot is sent to your address..it has an Absentee request form...you never have to go to a voting place or see anyone...no one checks to see who you are or if you are a citizen. There is no way to even check who filled out the ballot...aka voted.

Everyone should carry a full un-insured driver rider on their auto policy...it isn't just illegals who drive without licenses and or insurance. If i cause an accident then the other parties are covered...that's what PL and PD are. You don't know what you're talking about. I have been driving for more than 40 years in CA.

These are not undocumented immigrants, they are illegal aliens, they entered the US without going through the immigration process. Plus, they are pushing aside millions of people who are waiting and have respected the process.

The driver's license changes nothing....they are still not legally entitled to receive a taxpayer ID...as an employer I can be fined for employing them. It actually make the CADL invalid as a ID to obtain work. It will make things difficult for those who are here legally or native born if they look Hispanic. I will no longer accept a CADL as proof of residency... I can't afford the problem.

That's the cruel part of this...many people will think it changes their work status..sounds like you are among them...it does not. It only allows them to drive in California and requires them to pay for auto insurance. It does not bestow US resident status...or provide a work permit. It is a cynical con perpetrated by desparate politicans.

Personally I think that the SB60 shows the immigrants "non voters" that Davis would like to see progress for the immigrants. This might help him, come recall day because all though immigrants can't vote their legal family members can! I beleive this will make a great difference although many don't take it to consideration that many immigrants do have legal friends, family and or neighbors who want to see progress in the less fortunate. Also it helps not only the immigrants but the residents and or citizens for the fact that if an illegal immigrant crashed in to a legal resident the illegal immigrant doesn't have to pay for the damages for the fact that he has no legal documentation or identification. Also this can bring money to our state by the fact that much more people will be registering their cars now that they will have license and that alone will help our econmy. Also Insurance companies will get a great profit out of it.

I was planning to vote against the recall of Gov. Davis but since he decided to sign SB60 into law I'm having second thoughts. What do you think?

Our Contra Costa Times newspaper is full of letters to the editor concerning SB60. Never have I ever heard so many motorists and elected officials willing to admit that driving is a privilege, not a right. Yet none of the comment attempts to deal with the equal protection provisions of our Constitution and the ongoing injustice to citizens and legal residents who, unable to drive or afford cars, cannot get to job opportunities emerging during the past half century in areas that are poorly served by alternative modes of transportation. Elitist attitudes related to our love affair with the automobile seem to afflict liberals and conservatives alike.

For whatever it's worth elitism seems to be a part of human nature, but it should not influence land use decisions made by local and county elected officials. New urban and suburban development should be at least as accessible and functional for those who don't drive as it is for those who prefer cars. The least government can do is keep the playing field as level as possible and require illegal aliens to compete as equals with citizens who cannot, should not or choose not to drive. How can we equitably and cost-effectively provide transportation infrastructure for all if nobody wants to know who's entitled to what?

Good luck and drive carefully. I might be in the crosswalk.

Art Weber, El Cerrito

Well Art it isn't my fully insured, well maintained SUV that you have to worry about. I've driven in California for 43 years without a single accident or ticket.

But do watch out for that beatup, oil spewing F-250 loaded with uncovered and improperly tied rubbish trailing a air compressor trailer without brake lights and a totally inept non-English speaking driver at the wheel careening through your streets when you step off the curb.

As to the other issue...public vs private transportation..that horse bolted the CA barn when the Pols sold off public transportation at the behest of the Auto Barons in the early part of the last century.

I THINK THAT DRIVERS LICENCES SHOULD BE GIVEN TO ALL INDIVIDUALS WHO CAN PAST THE WRITTEN AND DRIVING TESTS. REGUARDLESS OF THEIR LEGAL STATUS. IM 18 YEARS OLD AND LIKE MANY PEOPLE I CAME AS AN IMMIGRANT FROM MEXICO IN 1990. I HAVE ALREADY GRADUATED HIGHSCHOOL, IM ATTENDING ONE OF THE BEST UNIVERSITIES IN CALIFORNIA (UCLA), AND I CAN'T DRIVE A VEHICLE. JUST BECAUSE IM AN IMMIGRANT. THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE GIVEN DRIVERS LICENCES AND VIOLATE THE LAW ALL THE TIME WHILE IM SITTING HERE GOING TO COLLEGE ALMOST EVERY DAY ON THE BUS AND HOPING THAT THE NEW LAW SB-60 CAN BE IN EFFECT JANUARY 1ST OF 2004. BUT UNFOURTUNATLY THERE ARE IGNORANT PEOPLE WHO CANT SEE MY POINT OF VIEW BECAUSE THEYRE BIAS TOWARDS PEOPLE LIKE ME. ALL I KNOW IS THAT IM GOING TO BE A PSYCHOLOGISTS ONE DAY AND THAT I HOPE THAT PEOPLE WOULD TAKE A MINUTE JUST TO PUT THEMSELVES IN MY SHOES FOR A WHILE.

Cinthia, for starters, you do not know what color, sex or nationality I am, so you are making an assumption that is little more than reverse racism.

You are not an "immigrant" unless you applied for and received legal immigration status. Semantics doesn't change your status nor your eligibility for rights and benefits of citizenship. Maybe you think cheating others out of benefits to which you are not entitled is admirable, or jumping in line before people who have obeyed our laws is okay.

It's not. TYPING IN CAPS (aka shouting) won't make it so, neither will a CADL. We are a nation of laws, our society is built on respect for those laws...you don't seem to grasp the basic concepts of this country. It is not about doing what you want, but living within our laws for the good of all. I'd like to be rich, but I can't print money.

But I digress.

I work with Eastern European legal immigrants and they don't agree with you. They feel like chumps because their families waited more than 5 years for their permits, in peril of their lives, they receive no special benefits or considerations because they are considered "white". Is that fair? or reverse discrimination?

I visit central Mexico and I sure as hell can't go to university, work or get a driver's license...nor can I get free medical services...not even in an emergency. Mexico makes it very expensive, time consuming and difficult to reside or work in Mexico and they do not allow illegals to stay. There isn't any question about "rights", non-Mexicans have none.

Is Mexico racist?

I pay the freight for your education among other benfits of citizenship you enjoy illegally, so I get a vote. When you become a US citizen then you can lecture me.

BTW- How exactly do you intended to become a licensed psychologist if you are not a legal resident? Or are our medical regulations and laws just more racism?

Cinthia, let me remind you, an immigrant just was sworn in as Governor of California which drives many vehicles with a CDL. SB60 isn't about 'immigrants'. It is about 'illegal' immigrants. And, by the way, how are you attending a public school? Do you have a visa? My advice to you is to go back to Mexico and get your driver's license. Then you would be able to drive in California! Since you are attending UCLA, haven't you been required to take a history or poly-sci class? If you were, you'd been educated to the fact that citizenship is of the State. And that by virtue of that State's citizenship, you become a citizen of the USA. It's not the other way around!

the SB60 is the best thing that could happen to the people.

well, I support the SB60, illegal are just wanting to share a little part of the american dream by working hard........

happyboy

You don't get it do you? Facilitating millions of people to exist in limbo, not citizens or legal residents, deprives them of obtaining that dream in exchange for their hard work.

Wake up, illegal immigration is de facto slavery.

I am a strong supporter of SB60 because I think it will provide MORE security rather than less security especially since the State will have data of all its residents (or whoever drives, at least.)
Any attempt to repeal SB60 is a sad one for the undocumented population and to all Californians.
Hope SB60 becomes a fact for the benefit of all.

"feste" made some comments here that are worth a second review. She said that the eastern European legal immigrants she works with (and I am of a European background myself, by the way) are somehow disturbed and feel they were cheated by the new legislation concerning SB60. She mislead all of you into thinking that the long waiting time to get their Green Card was filled with the same problems faced by the undoucmented aliens. It is simply NOT the case!!! I never heard of a single LEGAL IMMIGRANT who was unable to drive during the "waiting period" that you seem to describe. So stop spreading misinformation and lies and make people worry about SB60 when in fact everyone should worry about the countless efforts to repeal this humanistic law you so oppose. So what if it will do good to others? What good will come out of repealing this law??? Maybe you tell me about it feste. Did you try to drive or go to school in Mexico? What are you talking about??? They are trying to selll homes to Americans in TJ and you telling me they are just like US.
Shame on you and wake up to reality!!! Whether you like it or not these Millions of ILLEGAL (How scary, right?) ALEINS (maybe they are from out of space) are NOT going anywhere so you might as well allow them to drive so that yoour safety will be insured as well and so that we will all benefit from more money they will put in our State's economy. I suggest you check their BAGS and not their TAGS!!! good-bye!!!

Our immigration procedure requires an applicant to apply from OUTSIDE the US. The people of whom I spoke were not in the US as they waited for processing and quota slots...they were in Israel...the only destination the Soviets would allow Russian Jews an exit permit.

A non-citizen cannot apply for immigrant status IN the US, you must return to your country of citizenship and apply.

Maybe you should look up the immigration procedures and regulations and the word "alien"

a·li·en ( P ) Pronunciation Key (l-n, lyn)
adj.
Owing political allegiance to another country or government; foreign: alien residents.
Belonging to, characteristic of, or constituting another and very different place, society, or person; strange. See Synonyms at foreign.

Before spouting nonsense.

Perhaps you don't realize that illegal workers repatriated $US6 billion dollars to Mexico last year. That is money that should have gone into California's economy to create jobs, and tax base for roads, schools and infrastructure that said illegals use. As long as US dollars are flowing into the pockets of the Mexican ogliarchs who control the government, nothing will be done to improve conditions within Mexico.

Yes, I've driven in Mexico and the paperwork must be filed BEFORE I cross the border and I must carry insurance paid BEFORE I cross the border and non-Mexicans cannot obtain a driver's license without an FM-2.

I've gone to an ER in central Mexico and had to pay with a credit card before they would see me because I was a gringa.

From the Mexican counsul site:

In addition to the NAFTA employment, other visa classifications are available for non-Mexican nationals to visit and work in Mexico. A “FM-3” visa can be obtained for a business or technical visit to Mexico. For the FM-3 visa, the individual must intend to depart Mexico within one year of entry. The individual may apply for the “FM-3” visa at a Mexican Consulate. For a stay in Mexico for longer than 12 months, an employer or family member in Mexico may sponsor an individual for an “FM-2” visa. After holding “FM-2” status for 4-1/2 years, the individual may be eligible to apply for Permanent Resident status in Mexico if appropriate requirements are met.

You might ask if I am for legalising illegals or setting up a repatriation-work permit system before launching into a half-baked, ill-informed screed.

SB60 is not a solution as it does nothing to address the root problem.

Illegal immigration is a fact, a reality. It will not "utopically" change.

Applying for an immigrant visa from Mexico may take up to 20 years if it is accepted by presenting an extense pile of documents (most applicatios are not) . Applying for a visa as an illegal immigrant within U.S may take up to 13 years if appluing through a permanent resident paren(my case). How long does an European visa takes to be processed?

Therefore, there are illegals living in U.S. either for personal or for parental choices. Let's be realistic and not forget that illegals had licenses once and nothing bad happened. It is no longer a matter of political issues anymore (Davis is out).

It is not a national security issue either. There are many undocumented people driving around, and one of those could be a terrorist waiting for an opportunity. How do we know that?. If, God forbid, someone decides to blow up anything again, they do not need a driver's license or a permit from any agency to do so (a donkey or a dressed up dog would do).

We should know who is around us.

One more thing....

Does anybody know what happens when a driver is stopped without proper documentation by the traffic patrol?

Police confiscate their automobile, take their names (could be ficticious) and let them go without knowing exactly who they are or where they live. Scary, eh? No wonder police department is in favor of this law.

Immediate massive deportation can be the solution, someone may say. There are many other ways to do this hunting and has not happened yet and, realistically, will not happen. What is other solution? Identify them all.

Theresa, So you are saying that immigration law should be ignored or one group of people given preference over another? We should allow Mexicans to come in and stay whenever they want but Koreans, Ukrainans or Irish should obey the law and wait their turn. Don't you get the basic unfairness of what you are saying. Don't you understand that it feeds racial tension between ethnic communities.

As to identifying everyone, there is no way to check the Mexican documents upon which the CADL is issued. You can buy docs on any street corner in any city in the world.

When you register your car you must have insurance. The law is very clear that if you are stopped for a traffic or vehicle violation and do not have a plate or tag on your car and/or a driver's license and insurance that the vehicle is impounded for the safety of all. Read the DMV manual...this is no surprise. One of my nephews had his car impounded for no insurance (he is not hispanic)...he thought it very unfair too.

Traffic and safety laws apply to everyone and we all benefit or suffer when they are not inforced, no one should get a pass. There are plenty of non-hispanic Californians who scofflaw and drive while serving DUI convictions, on suspended license and without the proper docs and insurance. Do we give them a pass too?

You see the problem with giving one class of people rights over others?

I am not arguing for an utopia or deportation, but a process to legalize foreign workers and accelerate the citizenship process for those who want to stay. As a population, we are not having the right conversation, we need to figure this out. Partisan politics, race baiting and name calling only make it less likely and more difficult to reach a concensus and a resolution.

SB60 is like applying a bandaid to a bleeding artery...the patient will still bleed out.

Thank you for answering back.

I agree with you. Something must be done. Insulting and being aggressive does not resolve anything but contributes to more racial tension. I am not an activist, I have my DL and I am legal. But I want to give my point of view.

Unfortunately, accelerating citizenship process will not happen in the nearest future.
I am not saying that laws should be broken. Illegal Mexicans should not being allowed to stay whenever they want, neither any other illegal immigrant from another country. But they are here, and are not only mexicans.
We have two "types" of illegals: those who entered the country with visas and overstayed, and others who crossed the border walking or swimming. Along the mexican border there are people from all nations trying to cross it (including chinese, iranians, koreans, philipins, etc ). Because of this, people of all nationalities are already driving out there illegaly*. It is not a case unfairness. In that case, it is not fair to be born in a poor or politically problematic country that forces us all to move.

Yes, it is true that more illegal mexicans will benefit from this law so it may sound unfair, but it just happens that there are more mexican illegals that from any other country for geographical reasons, not because mexicans are trying to be unfair. Consider this: Mexico is the country that waits the most to have visas processed. INS is reviewing applications submitted in 1991, and takes from 1 - 3 years to receive a permanent resident card.

Yes, cars without proper documentation are removed from their drivers. My point is not about impounded cars, is about identification reasons. Even tough your nephew lost his car, he was properly identified for he has valid driver's license.

About fake documents, with sb60 there will be no need for an illegal person (not only mexicans get false documents) to buy a fake document if they can get it legally at the DMV; therefore, these documents provide accurate information and verifiable fingerprints.

SB60 will not provide proteccion to anyone for DUI, lack of insurance, traffic violations or anything special. It will give the privilege to drive, and it can be removed if any law requires it. Traffic Laws are for everyone.

For the record, I have seen parents waking up their kids at four in the morning to get to their job sites. Others venture to drive and loose their cars. Yes, it is a band aid for a large wound, but for many who are not even entitle to be here, can be a soothing cataplasm to their daily lives. Or they may continue the way they are until we decide their future of deportation, regularization or limbo.

Overall, the sb60 is for all people of any nationality who has stayed illegaly and cannot obtain a driving permit to be properly identifyied.

Thank you. Have a wonderful day.

*Applicants with tourist expired visas can not obtain or renew a driver's license activated only for one year.

There is a misconception about mexican documents. It is impossible to obtain a false verifiable mexican document, such a birth certificate and/or marital license. Think about it. If this was possible, any person could buy any number of false documents and the INS lines would not be sooo long.
It took me over a year and a lawyer to change my first name on my mexican birth certificate. My daughter is an american citizen and I can not get a mexican birth certificate unless I request citizenship, that is, I can not buy a false document. I am mexican, I know a thing or two about this. INS and FBI verify these documents an a daily basis and it is not difficult.

Ultimately, we are interested in what drivers are about and their lives in California: where they live, infraccions, fingerprints, DUI's, accidents, anything etc.

WoW
i am happy to see people that care about this country.ME personaly being an illigal can say that the points of view are drifrent from americans then from any one else bcause they feel as if we are taking over their country.
The fact is that they are the ones that came here, we were here first dudes.
One more thing:Driver licenses are good b cus

1)new cars are going to be bought since now the immigrants can drive them with out feeling like they are going to loose them, that means more money to the dealerships( thats good for economy)
2)they will be insured and that means more money for insurence companies(good for economy)
3) immigrants use old ugly cars b cus they cant afford to loose a car that is too expencive, thias means that if they buy a new car there is goinmg to be less smog,, yay less smog for cali!!
4)they are driving anyway, and will continue to drive, so why not give them the licence and make sure they are able to drive.

by the way they DL dosent mean you can vote or register.If people are so scared about it they should put a sticker( just like a donor sticker ) that says that they cant vote.

MY few words